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WHAT’S MISSING IN THE QURAN?
By Ahmed Simon
The answer to this question is
– ‘A lot’ - ‘A colossal amount’ - I mean, way too
much is missing in the Quran, if a comparison is made with the Bible. That
could be so unfair to the Quran and Islam/Muslims to even make a comparison.
But, Muslims falsely broadcast and
advertise, “Everything in the Bible is in the Quran.” It is like
claiming everything from the pail is in a cup. But, based on my previous
Islamic experiences, almost all Muslims do not have the slightest idea of their
own Quran, leave alone to compare it with the Bible. This is because the
Quranic verses are basically for reciting. Understanding the Quran is not
compulsory. So, Muslims generally, only learn to recite/memorize blindly the
Arabic Quran and depend on their learned clergy to interpret the Quranic sura
[verses]. Guess what, - no Islamic clergy will tell the truth about the
Quran and be damned by Allah for blaspheming him [See my testimony]. The
Islamic clergies’ training is first and foremost to defend and serve
Allah, at all cost and any circumstance, even if it means to lie/cheat/deceive
for Allah. That is why, Muslims say, “The Islamic atrocities all over the
world, are being done by those Muslims, who do not know the ‘True
Islam’.” Actually, in truth, it is they who do not know the
‘True Islam’, because they are being fed a ‘sanitized’
and ‘whitewashed’ Islam, fed to them by their Islamic clergies.
Readers can check and confirm the
truth in this article, by going to Ex-Muslims; write to any of the numerous
websites and/or links, who mostly have Ex-Islamic scholars, learned in Arabic;
buy yourself a translation of the Quran; go to a Christian Arab, go to a public
library near you, which has such a translation of the Quran; use the feedback
at the end of this article, etc.
So, the truth must be told to counter
the Islamic lies and falsehood. The truth must and will prevail over Islamic
untruths, lies, and deceptions. The truth, in detail is as follows: -
So let us examine the Sunni
sect’s Quran [The largest Islamic sect], which is translated by Mohammed
M. Pickthall and is recognized by the OIC.
[ ] { } denotes the author’s
comments. No attempt is made by this author, to correct the punctuation marks,
syntax, wordings and grammatical errors, so commonly inherent in the Quran and
is presented as exactly as it is: -
( ) Bracket symbols are inherent in
the Quran, without which many verses in the Quran would become meaningless
and/or incomplete.
AN
OVERVIEW OF THE BIBLE/QURAN
1.
The Bible is extensively documented as, the most published, sold,
bought, read, used, referred, and appreciated book in this world [See www.answering-islam.org] . No
documented evidence is available for the Quran.
2.
The Bible is published in more than a hundred and forty
languages, worldwide. No publishing records for the Quran are available, for
this.
3.
Because the bible is published and made available in the
various
own mother tongues; the bible is well understood, and the Almighty Lord
transcends national, racial, cultural and traditional boundaries. Thus,
Christians of all races/nationalities easily get to understand the
message of
the Lord’s Word [Bible] towards them, very well. These clear
understandings of the Bible, in their own languages render Christians
very
close and garner significant appreciation of the Almighty Lord, without
having
to waste time learning another language, alien to them. It is well known
and
also linguists would confirm, that reading in one’s own mother tongue is
better understood than in a second-language and also have many other
advantages. The Wise True Almighty Lord understands this and so never
insisted
on making one language more significant than the other. Thus, conveying
the
Lord’s Message/Word is the primary concern of the Christian Lord. That
is
why; Christianity has grown to be the largest religion in the world –
far
more than any other religion [Islam is not even half of Christianity],
because
the message is well understood.
The
Quran
requires all Muslims to pray only in the Arabic language, showing a
bias
towards Arabic against all other languages. This bias towards one
language,
instead of being universal, is insulting to all other languages. Because
of
this bias, almost all Muslims memorize prayers in the Arabic language, and
in most cases do not know the true meaning of their prayers. This is also
because, more than 80% of Muslims have to pray in a second language [Arabic]
alien to them. Thus, most Muslims have no clue of what they keep repeating, as
parrots do, without understanding them, and are really comical. Test this out,
and ask any Muslim and you will soon find out. If they are not good in
conversing in Arabic, how can they really understand the Quran? Imagine, an
American reciting a prayer in the Romanised Hindi [in the English alphabet],
leave alone to recite the prayer in the Hindi alphabet. That is why non-Arab
Muslims, cannot speak fluent Arabic, even though they pray daily, in Arabic.
Such is the ridiculous and illogical situation the Muslims are in, because of
this Quran.
4.
The Bible is an account of the Almighty Lord’s
aspirations/plans, for this world, for thousands of years. The Quran centers on
Allah’s plan to spread Islam all over this world, until there are only
Muslims, in this world [See Article ‘111 Questions for Muslims’]
5.
The Bible documents its purpose, in an amazingly detailed
chronological setting of the past and the future, beyond human capabilities.
The Quran claims it contains only Allah’s words [monologues] and there is
no chronological setting as the verses are haphazardly jumbled up in unrelated
subjects/topics with hardly any congruency and continuity.
6.
The Bible is well documented as absolutely accurate in every
aspect [See ‘Accuracy of the Bible’ in www.answering-islam.org].
The Quran has many contradictions/errors, even against records of
well-documented facts and history exhibited in Islamic country’s’
libraries/museums.
7.
The Bible records the dialogues between the Almighty Lord and
various prophets, between prophets and people, and also between people. Thus,
the Bible is full of dialogues giving the Lord’s rational and plans; for
thorough human understanding and human appreciation of the
Lord. Allah’s
Quranic verses were sent to an angel and this angel is supposed to have carried
Allah’s words to Muhammad, in monologues [one way]. These monologues are
what are supposed to be recorded in the Quran [sura 2:97 & 39:23]. Thus, the
Quran contains only dictates/monologues [one way speech] of Allah. The Quran
does contain rebuttals from Allah in relation to the Arabs’ accusations
and condemnations of the Quran.
8.
The Bible is specific in all significant aspects; thus, giving a
huge amount of accurate information and this also prevents
misinterpretations. The Quran is not specific and leads to
numerous misinterpretations, in ‘anything goes’. Resulting in more
than 200 Islamic sects and hundreds of sub-sects, sprouting up all over the
world. Ask 10 Muslims and you could possibly get 10 different interpretations
of a single verse from the Quran.
9.
Various authors, who were inspired by the Almighty Lord and with his
inspired words and deeds; beyond human capabilities, wrote the Bible; thus, the
words in the Bible are actually words of the Almighty
Lord.
Muhammad and the remaining companions [mercenaries] were poisoned to death
before the Quran was written down [His companions who memorized many verses for
him, were killed earlier in the Battle of Yammamah.] So the various caliphs of the day,
gathered, compiled, edited and re-edited [by trial and error] the Quranic
verses from Muhammad’s wives, concubines, temporary wives, relatives,
friends [who were all not known for their intelligence] and associates
of Muhammad over hundreds of years. [For details, see article, ‘The
invention of Islam’]
10.
The Bible is interesting, because it is the story of Mankind from
the beginning till the
end.
The Quran is only Allah’s ‘guidance to ward off evil’ [Sura
2:2 & 2:21]
11.
The Bible records events in History. The Quran is not a
historical document, because there is no history in the Quran.
12.
The Bible informs the History of kingdoms, places and various
societies in an accurate chorological
setting.
The Quran has no history whatsoever. The Quran does mention a few historical
characters; but just mentioning them is not history, is it?
13.
The Bible is vital/used for archeological knowledge/surveys to
assist in various works in Israel and all the countries mentioned in the Bible from the
three continents, and by the archeologists of all
religions. The Quran has literally, nothing useful
for archeology/surveys.
14.
The Bible is essential to many scientists, engineers, architects,
historians, museums, artists, doctors, study of Mankind, philosophers,
geologists, seismologists, designers, Universities, schools of higher learning,
surveyors, etc. of all religions, for knowledge and/or
research. The Muslims, as you know, are
the only ones who use the Quran.
15.
Thus, the Bible is universal; used by all religions, of all
nationalities/races in all languages and most schools of
academicians. Only
Muslims, as you know, use the Quran.
ABOUT
THE CONTENTS OF THE BIBLE/QURAN
16.
The whole Bible is arranged
according to the progress of the Almighty Lord’s aspirations/plans in a
systematic progression. The
Quran is a haphazard jumble of verses in many unrelated subjects/topics; but,
arranged unimportantly, just by the longest chapter in length; followed by the
next longest and the last chapter with just 6 lines. For inconsistency of the
Quran - the first half of the Quran consists of only 20 chapters and the second
half consists of the balance 94 chapters – See what I mean.
17.
From the Bible, humans know of
accurate dates, times, periods, societies, locations, traditions, history,
kings, governments, empires, heroes, geography, science, medicine, customs, way
of life of various people,
etc.
The Quran gives No dates, No times, No periods, etc. – and no systematic
progression within the Quran.
18.
The Bible describes the end of
the world and even gives revelations of the future, yet to materialize;
so,
Christians can be aware of what to expect in the future.
The
Quran
ends with Chapter [sura] 114 – thus, “Sura 1. Say I seek
refuge in the Lord of Mankind 2. The king of Mankind 3. The God of
Mankind 4.
From the evil of the sneaking whisperer 5. Who whispereth in the hearts
of
Mankind 6. Of the Jinn and of Mankind.” This entire last Chapter [Sura
114] is just 6 lines and Muslims consider this gibberish as holy verses?
But,
are definitely meaningless utterances to non-Muslims, for a Scripture?
19. The Bible’s accuracy is
absolute and well documented [in www.answering-islam.org for
details].
The Quran is filled with contradictions, errors, lies and stupidity [See
article, ‘111 Questions for Muslims’ & ‘Is Islam a
Fake?’]. Let me give you typical examples. In sura 2:22 –
Allah says, “[Allah] Who hath appointed earth a resting-place for you,
and the sky a canopy; and causeth water to pour down from the sky.” A
resting-place for earth, where, how, why – Does the earth get tired of
orbiting and rotating daily? Another, in 2:53, Allah says, “And when we
gave unto Moses the Scripture…” This is repeated 6 times in other
chapters of the Quran. Allah gave Moses [a Jew] the Scripture [Bible]? Why?
How? When? This is a blatant lie by Allah, simply because almost all the other
prophets were not yet born then and the Scripture [Bible] was not yet
formulated. And about 90% of the events of the Scripture {Bible} did not yet
take place in around 1,250 B.C. [Moses’ time], so how could he have given
the Scripture [Bible]? In any case, Moses gave only the first 5 books, out of
the 66 in the Bible, or did Moses burn or threw away Allah’s scripture?
Isn’t Allah lying in the Quran? Or does Allah think that the Bible
contains only the 5 books of Moses? It also shows how ignorant Allah is of
Judaism and Christianity. If he is a God shouldn’t he know everything?
Honestly, do you think any Jew would ever believe Islam/Allah; especially when
they died rejecting Allah/Islam?
20. The bible
details the Torah, so that Jews/Christians will be well
informed.
Only the word ‘Torah’ is mentioned in the Quran. But, the Torah is
not described in the Quran. So ask a Muslim about the Torah from the Quran and
either the Muslim will instantly loose his voice or lie like Hell, to defend
his inapt Allah/Quran.
21. From the
Bible, humans are informed of accurate dates, times, periods, people,
locations, traditions, history, geography, science, ways of life of various
people, prophecies, wisdom, psalms, proverbs, creation of the universe, etc.
The Quran gives nothing of importance.
22. In
substance, the Bible is sacred and a Holy Scripture in the true sense, beyond
human capabilities. The Hadiths of Sahih Bukhari inform us that humans invented
the Quran [See article ‘The Invention of Islam’].
23. The Bible
was created perfect in every aspect, the very first time; by inspired people
and with the inspiration of the Almighty Lord. [The ‘Dead Sea
Scrolls’ exhibited publicly in the Jerusalem Museum proves this; in
addition to the ancient manuscripts, codex’s, artifacts, and the
thousands of items in the Vatican Museum, and other International museums,
etc.]
The Quran states in Sura 22:52 that Allah
removed Satan’s verses in the Quran – but, doesn’t say if ALL
of Satan’s verses were removed. One wonders why Satan’s verses were
in the Quran, in the first place, and can it be considered sacred if tampered
by Satan, even if altered later? What does it tell you of a Quran, which Allah
confirms being worked on by Satan?
24. The
structure of the Bible is in two parts – The Old Testament –
God’s plans of the old period [B.C. period], and The New Testament
– God’s plan of the new period, including the future [A.D. period].
The Old Testament contains 39 books and the New Testament contains 27 books; 66
books in total, of different periods in history and time, of the Universe. Each
book is divided into chapters and each chapter contains various related verses.
The amazing thing is that the 66 books; though all different, flow uniformly
and is linked to one another, into one whole Bible. For instance The Old
Testament speaks of details/events in the New Testament. And the New Testament
speaks of the Old Testament. This is remarkable and beyond human capabilities
to
produce.
The Quran is only one book divided into chapters and verses of Allah.
25. The Bible is
made up of 1,189 chapters. If a particular verse is referred; the particular
book, chapter and verse will be stated – as the book of Isaiah –
chapter – verse [Is: 41:21] or Jeremiah as Jr: 51:10 or Ezekiel as Ez:
48:23 but when it comes to the books of Samuel, it is referred as 1S: 23:14 and 2S:
24:25, for the two books. By the way, prophets Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel and
Samuel, so very important in Judaism [for the Jews] and Christianity [for the
Christians] are some of the many prophets not mentioned, even by name in the
Quran – completely missing in the
Quran.
The Quran is one book and made up of just 114 chapters [sura] and the last
few chapters [105 to 114] contain less than 7 lines; - for chapters 93 to 104
are less than 11 lines each, in the Quran. Thus, logically, the last 21
chapters [Sura 93 to 114] could easily be compiled into one chapter. For a
verse in the Quran, just the chapter and verse is stated, such as 5:18.
26. The Bible
contains 31,173 [23,214 + 7,959] verses. While the Quran contains 6,241 to
6,682 verses {depending on the particular Islamic sect’s Quran, There are
more than 200 Islamic sects} Further more, there are 20 to 30% of repeat verses
in the Quran, some repeated over and over again, many times. If not for these
repeat verses the Quran will shrink drastically (by as much as about 2,000
verses from the present 6, 000 over) in volume. (See ‘The different
Arabic versions of the Quran’ in www.answering-islam.org)
27. The Bible is
made up of 1412 pages [in small print and without the preface, introductions,
maps, index, illustrations, contents, chronological list, etc.] The Quran is
just 433 pages.
28. The Bible
begins from darkness/nothingness and the start of the creation of the Universe,
from the very beginning; giving us the first view of God’s plan for the
salvation of this
world.
Chapter One of the Quran is only verses of praise for/to Allah.
29. The Bible
gives the Geography of events, places, kingdoms, etc. The
Quran has NO geography whatsoever. The Quran, thus, does not need maps and so
does not give any. Though, Allah does state east/west, in general terms,
without giving names; for example, that Alexander the Great, met a community of
people living at the end of the world.
The question is ‘where on earth is this end of the world, and where even
people resided. Is there an end to this spherical earth? Who are these people?
Historically also, this tale by Allah, in the Quran, contradicts with the
Biography of Alexander, even in Islamic countries’ library books (see
article ‘111 Questions for Muslims’ in this website for more
unbelievable contradictions/errors in the Quran)
30. The Bible
tells us of the life story of prophets (biographies) and of almost all their
families.
The Quran has NO Biography of any prophet (not even of Muhammad).
Because if these shortcomings of the Quran, authors began writing the Hadiths
and the Sunna, so that Muslims can know/understand their prophet. But this only
created even more confusion, because the various authors, who wrote these
Hadiths and Sunna, did it hundreds of years after Muhammad passed away, and
authentic information was lost forever. So, the Hadiths/Sunna do contradict
each other. Unlike, in the Bible, most authors lived and worked with the
prophets to give the Jews/Christians first hand authentic information.
31. The Bible
informs of various miracles. Allah says he does not believe in miracles, (Sura
3:183-184). But the Quran does state a few miracles of a few Jewish prophets
(about 10%, but even that few with errors).
32. The Bible
states numerous prophecies, (and of the past; all came true). All these
prophecies are beyond human capabilities; and only an Almighty God have such
powers to state events so accurately, even before it
materialized.
The Quran has NO prophecy at all, except unjustified claims of Allah.
33. The Almighty
Lord made humans in his image. The
Quran’s Allah is anybody’s guess; as it is not stated.
34. The Bible
speaks of ALL the prophets. Allah admits in sura 4:164 that he left out the
majority of the prophets in the Quran [“… and messengers we have
not mentioned to you.”]. In fact, most of those mentioned in the Quran,
is only by name. So Muslims have no idea and are totally ignorant of many
prophets, even if it was named in the Quran; such as Isaac, Job, Jacob, etc.
35. The language
of the Bible is allegoric, historical, literary, literature, chronicled,
poetry, wisdom, integrity, legal, morality, compassionate, hymns, methodical,
explained, specific, detailed, etc. The language of the Almighty Lord of the
Bible assumes that it is speaking to intelligent people.
The Arabic language of the Quran is the language of the day, mainly used then,
by the Qurashi tribe belonging to Muhammad. Thus, the Arabs of today, will find
the language of the Quran, not easy to understand. In any case, understanding
the Quran is not important in Islam; but just blindly reciting the Quran is
essential. So, it is not wrong to say that almost all Muslims do not know the
contents of their Quran. The language of the Quran is also simply literal, as
though of a simpleton, with no specifics. Let me give you typical examples; in
sura 19:74, Allah says he destroyed many generations; in 19:98 Allah repeats
this again and in 21:6 and 21:11 Allah says
he destroyed whole communities, without further elaborations. Where, when, why,
how, and whom this Allah destroyed, if at all {with no specifics/details} is
simply left to pure speculation. Similarly, the majority of verses are not
specific in the Quran, leading to all sorts of interpretations among Muslims. The
language of the Allah in the Quran assumes that it is speaking to dumb morons.
Those with a little bit of common sense will find it very hard to believe this
Quran.
36. The Bible
gives lots of parables for information/education/wisdom. The Quran
has no parables of any sort.
37. The Bible
gives us 100 pages of
Psalms. The Quran
only mentions the word ‘Psalms’. Muslims have no idea of the
wonders and wisdom of thousands of years of the Psalms.
38. The Bible
gives us 28 pages of proverbs for moral/religious, educational/knowledge. The
Quran has no proverbs, at all.
39. The Bible
informs of God’s love and plans for the humans.
The Quran literally makes Allah’s demands/dictates on all humans (Muslims
and non-Muslims), mostly with threats/terror/fear. Allah demands humans to even
fear him, in numerous verses, in contrast to the loving God of the Bible. Allah
never confirms that he loves humans, but lots of threats to believers (Muslims)
and especially to disbelievers (non-Muslims), such as, in 2:191, Allah says,
“And slay them {non-Muslims} wherever ye find them
40. In the Book
of Job alone there are more glorious descriptions of God's personality, unity,
power, love and holiness than in the entire Quran. The God of the Bible
describes himself, as ‘Love’ and is our ‘Father’ who
cares for us. "See what love {of} the Father has given us, that we should
be called children of God; and so we are". 1 John 3:1. "Fear not,
little flock, for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the
kingdom". Luke 12:32. The Allah of the Quran describes himself
in sura 3:54 – as
the “best of schemers”. Why does a supposed God scheme, as a low
down crook? Is Allah always scheming against humans? Doesn’t Allah trust
the humans? Allah of the Quran also describes himself as a terrorist in
4:14 – And whoso disobeyeth Allah and his messenger and transgresseth Allah’s
limits, He (Allah) will make him enter fire where such will dwell
forever.” Isn’t this proof of Allah terrorizing Muslims into
bondage? In 4:34 Allah
demands Muslim husbands to scourge {whip} their disobedient wives with no limit
stated, “As for those (wives) whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and
banish them to beds apart, and scourge {whip} them.” Doesn’t Allah
know how to treat women in a civil manner instead of physical violence? So, in effect, it
is a fact that Muslims are not given a choice to think [See item b below] or
act different to the Quran. All these are in complete contrast
to the loving God of the Bible.
41. The Bible
does not impose/restrict on non-believers, so much so that Muslims flee from
their Islamic countries to ‘steal’ into Christian or other
non-Muslim countries to enjoy the benefits of the non-Muslims’ hard work.
If Islam is so good, why this hypocrisy? By fleeing Islamic countries,
aren’t Muslims themselves, proving to non-Muslims that Islam is really
bad? The
Quran imposes/dictates on believers/non-believers. But, non-Muslims (82% of
this world) ignore this Allah as a fake – so, ‘no sweat’.
42. The Bible
does not classify believers into different categories, as all Christians are
the children of the Almighty Lord. Allah
clearly states and explicitly implied in the Quran, dividing believers
[Muslims] into different categories [‘Muslims who sit still’ and
‘Muslims who give their wealth, money, lives, for the cause of
Allah.’ – For further details see article, ‘Islam is a
trap.’]
43. The Almighty
Lord of the Bible shows and refers to humans as his loving and precious
creations. The Almighty Lord says every human life is important to him many a
times. Thus, the humans, in return, refer the God of the Bible, with love and
gratitude, for having created a wonderful human being. In contrast,
Allah refers to the humans in the Quran, as his slaves and demands humans to
fear him, instead of loving him. Allah even refers to his prophet, Muhammad as
his slave. This is actually, an insult to Allah, who could only produce
unthinking and insignificant slaves to be used as beasts of burden for his
selfish goal of trying to make this whole world, Islamic. It is also shameful
for humans to be known as just slaves. Slavery is a ‘dirty’ word
and is disgusting and illegal in this modern world. But the Quran condones such
illegal activity and is still practiced in some areas.
44. The God of
the Bible says not to judge other humans, but to love them instead and
leave judgment of humans to the Almighty Lord “Vengeance is mine,”
said the Lord. Thus, humans are advised by the Bible not to
retaliate.
In contrast, the Allah of the Quran says, “O ye who believe! Retaliation
is prescribed to you…” It is no wonder that Muslims are killing
Muslims, even in mosques. Since the Allah of the Quran, demands humans to judge
and punish each other, even kill other humans on earth, there is no peace and
security in Islamic societies. Thus, logically, Islam does not need heaven and
Hell because judgment on humans is already made on earth, based on individual
human perceptions. Thus, Heaven and Hell are meaningless in Islam?
45. The Lord of
the Bible is sympathetic and says the poor will be rewarded, etc/ Such is the
loving God of the Bible. But,
in contrast, the Quran’s Allah says, in Sura 9:20,
“Those who believe … and striven with their wealth and their lives
in Allah’s way are of much greater worth in Allah’s sight.”
‘Money-face’ Allah who categorizes even his believers into 1st
and 2nd class Muslims. Thus, to ‘buy’ Allah’s
favour, Muslims donate generously for Allah’s way – Terrorism to
non-Muslims [as the FBI found out].
46. Because the
Bible is such an array of wise books/topics, it makes it very interesting and
is extensively used for prayers, research, reading, for information, for
leisure, for songs, for story-telling, for singing, for knowledge, for history,
for military, for psychology, for love, for marriage, for nurturing, for life,
for truth, for expeditions, for travel, for compassion, for archeology, for
science, for societies, for experiences, for guidance, etc. Thus, the bible
draws humans closer to love the almighty Lord with all our ‘hearts’.
The fact is the Bible has something of interest for everyone. The
Quran contains just ‘dry’ statements of Allah’s claims,
threats, terror, reprisals, demands, and dictates, which make reading the Quran
boring and does not enrich a person with knowledge in life.
47. The Almighty
Lord of the Bible, states in many instances, of the miraculous ways he worked
his plans/aspirations WITH SPECIFIC DETAILS. The Allah of the Quran,
in almost all instances, demands his followers [Muslims] to do his dirty work
for him. It seems to me, this Allah has no power to do anything, by himself. Why
then does he ask Muslims to do his dirty work for him? [See ‘Is the Quran
Holy?]
ABSURD AND UNIQUE ONLY TO THE
QURAN/ALLAH/ISLAM
a.
In sura 2:97 & 39:23, Allah says that he revealed his Quran
to an angel and this angel took its verses to Muhammad. But, no one witnessed
this, neither did they see, hear, feel anything of this conveyance to Muhammad
– only Muhammad claimed so. This is absurd and unique a way to pass down
a religious scripture isn’t it? Why didn’t Allah talk with
Muhammad, especially when Allah claims in sura 4:164 – “…and
Allah spoke directly unto Moses”? Is it then that Moses (Musa) is more
important than Muhammad to Allah/Islam? I know of no other religion, in which
their God did not talk to their messenger/prophet, but just kept dispatching
his tenets through a courier, as Allah did.
b.
In sura 33:36 of the Quran, Allah says, “And it becometh
not a believing man or a believing woman, when Allah and his messenger have
decided an affair (for them), that they should (after that) claim any say in
their affair; and whoso is rebellious to Allah and His messenger, he verily
goeth astray in error
manifest.”
No say, allowed in the believers’ affair? So, no thinking [whether
rational or otherwise] is allowed in Islam, except for believers [Muslims] to
obey/follow as unthinking morons. Typical to the Quran; this sura also ends
with a threat to Muslims, who “goeth astray”. Thus, Muslims are
terrorized with fear of Allah, into being in Islam, without question – A
trap. This is absurd/unique only to the Quran/Allah. No other religion I
know, forbids independent thinking.
c.
The Almighty Lord of the Bible lacks nothing and is perfect in
every way. But, the Allah of the Quran admits that he is not perfect. In
sura 61:8 Allah says, “Fain would they put out the light of Allah with
their mouths, but Allah will perfect His light however much the
disbelievers are averse.” This shameful admission of Allah for not being
perfect is absurd and unique only in the Quran/Islam.
d.
In sura 19:71, Allah gives his ordinance in the Quran,
‘everyone will not escape Hell when they die’. In sura 19:72,
‘some will be eventually saved from the fires of Hell’. So
however good you are, the Islamic journey absolutely takes you to burn in Hell,
no matter what. Imagine, an infant child sent to burn in Hell by this Allah. I
suppose, morality or being good, does not carry much weight in Islam. Perhaps,
for following the True Islam of the Quran, as ‘True Muslims’, Allah
could have realized that their journey deserves a place in Hell.
e.
In sura 2:41 – Allah says, “And believe in that which
I reveal {Quran}, confirming that which ye possess already (of the Scripture
{Bible}),” As you noticed in item 34 above, Allah admits he did not
mention the majority of the prophets in the Quran; and yet this Allah thinks
the Quran can still confirm the Bible? Is this Allah joking or is this Allah
out of his mind? In any case, why does anyone want to confirm the Bible,
because the Bible does not need any confirmation, as it is the Word of the
Almighty Lord? Why does the Bible need any confirmation and for what? Does
Allah’s Quran need confirmation?
f.
Ishmael is a prophet only in Islam (not in Judaism neither
in Christianity). Ishmael is the illegitimate son of Abraham and Sarah’s
maid, Hagar. As Hagar is an Egyptian; according to Jewish religious and legal
laws are not considered/accepted as a Jew. Only Jews are accepted in Judaism as
their prophet. This is because, to be a Jew, one must be born of a Jewish
mother, [not of the father]. Legally/religiously, a Jew cannot be a Muslim and
a Muslim cannot be a Jew. [See definition of a ‘Jew’ in the
article, “Jesus is not in Islam.”] Abraham knew this and eventually,
sent off Hagar and Ishmael away to Egypt for good and instead, kept his legal
Jewish son, Isaac, for the rest of his life.
g.
The Quran is the only religious tenet I know, which does not
permit/allow Believers {Muslims} to be friends of disbelievers [sura 4:89]
h.
The Quran is the only religious tenet, which does not
permit/allow Muslims to give up Islam [apostate]. Thus, Islam is effectively a
trap – once in, no getting out. If a Muslim gives up Islam, Allah demands
Muslims to kill that ex-Muslim. [Sura 4:89]
i.
The Quran is the only religious tenet I know, which demands all
believers [followers] to face a stone Kaaba when praying at all times
[Sura 2:144 “wheresoever ye may be, turn your faces (when ye pray)
towards it {stone Kaaba}.” Also in 149 & 150] The big problem
with this command of Allah, is that it is humanly impossible to face the
stone Kaaba, for those out of sight, on this spherical [round] earth, except to
face the outer space. The question is, didn’t Allah know that the
earth is actually a sphere [round]? Even an idiot should have known this,
don’t you think? So, what does it say of Allah? Where does this leave the
Muslims - for fear of Allah and not to be seen as disobedient to Allah, Muslims
circumvent this humanly impossible task, by pretending to face
the stone Kaaba for their 5 daily prayers – this is really a comedy of
errors. Some place a picture of the stone Kaaba in front. The stone Kaaba is
the only religious structure, I know, which keeps cracking so many times [See
article, ‘Kaba, Kabah, Kaaba, Ka’aba]
j.
The Quran, 10:95, Allah commands his prophet “And if thou
(Muhammad) art in doubt concerning that which We reveal unto thee, then
question those (Christians) who read the scripture (that was) before
thee.” This is a very shameful statement to any religion to ask another
religion to confirm it, if in doubt. Why didn’t Allah clear
Muhammad’s doubts? Doesn’t Allah know the answers? Isn’t the
Quran confirming that Allah is less knowledgeable than the ordinary Christians?
Isn’t this proof/evidence that Allah is asking ordinary Christians for
confirmation of his Quran?
k.
Issa is a prophet only in Islam, but not in
Judaism/Christianity. According to Allah, he is the grandson of Amram (Imran -
the father of Moses, Aaron and Mary). Amram’s daughter, Mary, was the
mother of this Issa and all of them lived around 1250 B.C. (sura 66:12, 3:35,
5:110 & 19:28) Judaism/Christianity does not even mention this particular
Issa – Esau in Hebrew. (For details see article, ‘Jesus is not in
Islam’) Without Jesus [Joshua] in Islam, the Quran is missing all that
is in the entire New Testament.
l.
The New Testament has so much of God’s love and empathy for
mankind. But, the Quran uniquely is full of hate verses, unlike any other
religious tenet, I know.
m. The
Quran in Sura 2:106 - Allah admits, “Such of Our Revelations as We
abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring (in place) one better or the like
thereof.” Why
did Allah abrogate [cancel] some initial revelations and improve {better} on
others in the Quran? Weren’t Allah’s initial verses any good?
Couldn’t he get it right the first time, instead of bungling his way
around? Thus, isn’t the Quran changed/corrupted? This is repeated in
16:101; possibly to make sure Muslims do not miss this Allah’s
corruption? I know of no other scripture of any other religion, in which a
supposed god admitting to his bungling ways.
n. In Sura 2:47 Allah
says – “O children of Israel. Remember my favour wherewith I favoured you and how
I preferred you over (all) other creatures.” Allah’s favour –
what favour – Jews tell me they have no idea of this favour. Why did
Allah prefer the Jews and not the Arabs? Why did Allah not prefer the Arabs?
Weren’t the Arabs good enough for him? Doesn’t this tell you what
Allah thought of the Arabs, which includes Muhammad? Isn’t Allah then
also a racist? This doesn’t make sense, because Allah demands the Quran
be in Arabic. If Allah preferred the Jews, why is the Quran not in the Hebrew
Language? Is this Allah confused?
o.
In Sura 10:2 Allah states, “These [in the Quran] are verses
of the wise Scripture [Bible].” Even Allah confirms the Bible is
wise. Allah also confirms here, that he is a plagiarizer, isn’t he? If
the Quran is a copy of the Bible, then what is the need for Allah to make the
Quran? If the Quran is a duplicate of the Bible, then isn’t it idiotic to
copy it and call it a Quran? Muslims counter this by claiming that the Bible
was changed (in spite of the thousands of Manuscripts, codices, evidences
available and in the form of records, records of records, materials in Museums,
the Vatican, history, geography, archeology and the ‘Dead Sea
Scrolls’) Allah claims he gave the Bible to the Jews/Christians (to
Moses, see above). If the Christians did ‘change’ the Bible as the
Muslims claim; then, why did Allah not protect ‘his wise Bible’, he
was supposed to have given; from being changed? Muslims simply make claims, but
do not say what was changed. Are Jews/Christians cleverer than Allah to change
the supposed words of Allah? Or has this Allah no powers to stop the
Jews/Christians? Either way, it makes the Quran and the Muslims’ claims
false and ridiculous, isn’t it? In
Sura 2:89, Allah says, “…The curse of Allah is on
disbelievers.” Is this all Allah himself can personally do against
non-Muslims – keep cursing and cursing, forever – a powerless and
toothless ‘Islamic God’? Is this why he asks his believers
[Muslims] to do his work for him? This is absurd and unique only in the
Quran/Islam.
p.
The Islamic prophet, Muhammad was totally illiterate (was not
schooled and could not read or write). This is absurd and unique only in
Islam. I know of no other religious prophet being totally unschooled and could
not read or write – An Uneducated Prophet – only in Islam. It is no
wonder that Islam is for the illogical.
q.
In Sura 2:183, Allah says in the Quran, - “O ye who
believe! Fasting is prescribed for you,” The Muslims obediently follow
this demand of Allah but, with a Muslim twist; by first stuffing
themselves to the brim, 3 to 5 heavy meals in the nights, to fast in the
daylight hours. Therefore, actually consuming even more food everyday, during
the fasting month (28 days) than usual. In fact, by the mornings, Muslims are
so stuffed that some even vomit out. Watch Muslims flocking shopping centers
and supper-markets during the fasting month, as though there is no tomorrow.
This is absurd and unique only in Islam. Does Allah have night-blindness? Who
are they trying to cheat?
r.
The Quran is the only religious book I know, which condemns its
own followers [Muslims]. In Sura 2:65, Allah says, “And ye know of those
of you who broke the Sabbath, how Allah said unto them: Be ye apes despised and
hated!” Though, Allah is referring to the Jews in this sura, it also does
mean that all who break the Sabbath (Saturday) will be turned into apes,
despised and hated. And since Muslims do not keep holy the Sabbath;
doesn’t it mean that Allah will turn all Muslims into apes, despised
and hated for observing only Fridays as holy, (just as the Hindus do on
Fridays) instead of the Sabbath [Saturdays], as the Jews do? Why is Islam
so different from the religion of the Jews - Judaism? The answer is in the
article, ‘The invention of Islam’.
s.
The obvious and blatant CORRUPTION in the Quran – In sura
17:1 Allah says, “Glory be He [Allah] Who carried His [Allah’s]
servant [Muhammad] by night from The Inviolable Place of Worship [Mecca] to the
Far Distant Place of Worship [Medina] the neighbourhood whereof We have
blessed, that We might show him of Our tokens.” [Capital letters refer to
Allah]. If Muhammad was already dead and the Quran was not yet compiled before
his death, whom did Allah give this sura to? Doesn’t this mean that
someone else blasphemed/corrupted the Quran by putting his verse into the
Quran? Doesn’t this prove that the Quran is corrupted?
t.
Can you imagine a religious Scripture asking its followers to
kill other men, women and children, just because they do not believe this
Islamic Allah? That is exactly what this Allah says in the Quran sura 9:29,
“Fight [kill] against such of those who have been given the Scripture
[Jews/Christians] as believe not in Allah,” So be warned, every
Jew/Christian is a target for being killed. This is serious.
u.
In Sura 2:216 – Allah says to Muslims “Warfare is
ordained for you”. So true Muslims are forever in a state of war against
the non-Muslims. This is absurd and ridiculous for Allah of the Quran, to keep
all Muslims on a war footing at all times. No other religion I know does this
to their believers.
v.
The Quran has only 6, 200 to 6, 6,682 verses (depending on the
particular Islamic sect). Without the repeat verses; the Quran would have only
about 4, 000 verses. I know of no other Scripture with so few verses. This must
be a record for the ‘Guinness Book of World Records.’
w. The
Quran is not only a complete miss-match with the Bible (probably with any other
religion) in any standard, whichever way you look at it. But, as you have read,
the Quran is for those who cannot think rationally. These are all undeniable
facts. [I can go on and on, but due to space, I will end here]
Note: There are
numerous other absurdities in the Quran; where Allah says, the earth is as flat
as a carpet, insisting on wiping invisible tears for every Muslim prayer, stars
are missiles for Allah to shoot at the devils, the moon follows the sun,
Mountains are pegs to prevent the Earth from shaking, etc. [See my other
articles for these and other absurdities]. The Quran is erroneous and way off
the mark, morally, ethically, scientifically, historically, humanely, etc. How
can such a book be divine in any stretch of imagination? ACTUALLY, THE QURAN
IS SO ABSURD AND REDICULOUS, THAT GENERALLY, NON-MUSLIMS CANNOT BELIEVE THAT
SUCH TRASH AND STUPIDITY IS BELIEVED AS HOLY BY THE MUSLIMS. BUT, BEING IN A
TRAP [ISLAM], I CAN UNDERSTAND THE PREDICAMENT THE MUSLIMS ARE IN [See article,
‘Islam is a trap’]
CAN YOU IMAGINE, WHAT WILL HAPPEN, TO
A MUSLIM, IN AN ISLAMIC COUNTRY, IF HE/SHE APOSTATES [gives up Islam]?
Summary: The Bible is the Story of
families – the Adam family, the Noah family, and finally the Holy Family
of Jesus. The God of the Bible, is loving, affectionate, compassionate,
empathetic, understanding, generous, and powerful. The human aspect is given
the greatest value, in all aspects of life, by this loving God.
The Quran is a Jumble of verses,
written down unprofessionally, and as you see above is full of violence, hate,
threats, unfriendliness, irrationality, gender biased, and a very distant
Allah, who make so many mistakes, blunders, and seeks not to be loved, but to
be feared by humans, instead. Actually, in many verses, Allah treats, humans as
unimportant animal fodder for his ultimate goal of making this whole world,
Islamic – wish full thinking, eh!
Warning - Remember
the real life story of Chechnya in Russia. For those who are unaware, let me give you a brief
history of the event. After the collapse of the USSR,
the Muslim chechnyans rose in an independence struggle to take Chechnya
out of Russia. Boris Yeltsin became the President of Russia and later
signed a face-saving peace deal giving Chechnya almost complete Independence,
as a weak Russia of that time could not continue the expensive war.
Instead of consolidating and improving the lives of the citizens of Chechnya,
the Muslims carried their fight to neighbouring territories that were mainly
Christian and began clearing them out by instilling fear, etc. Meanwhile, Chechnya
under Muslim rule became lawless and got worse in every way and even food
became a scarce commodity. Eventually, these Muslims with the help of foreign
Muslims [especially Arabs] began taking their fight all the way up to the
Russian Capital, Moscow; when they took about 500 hostages in the famous Moscow
theatre on 24-10-02. But, this time, with a stronger Russia
and a new President, Putin; the Russians rescued nearly 400 hostages and killed
every one of the Muslim hostage-takers [Jihadists]. There were 2 other
incidents in Russia by the Muslim Chechnyans, also, but failed. Russia
then attacked Chechnya and took it back into the Russian fold, and tore and
threw away the earlier signed Peace Treaty.
My question to you is, ‘Why
were the Muslims NOT satisfied with their initial victory in Chechnya,
instead of trying to go beyond the Chechnya borders and terrorizing others? The answer is, the
Muslims in Chechnya, did not achieve the ultimate goal of Allah, to turn
this entire world Islamic. In the scheme of Allah, Chechnya
was only a small step in the worldview of Allah/Islam. So given an inch, the
Islamic ideology is not to take a foot, but every inch of the whole world. So,
don’t kid yourself, Islam cannot and will not stop fighting, until the
whole world is Islamic, whether you like it or not [See item t above]. When an
Islamic atrocity takes place, the Muslims have been taught how to camouflage
Allah against the atrocity, by saying, “it was done by Muslims who did
not know the ‘True Islam’, as though there is such a thing as a
‘True Islam’ and an ‘Untrue Islam’ when they all
come from the Quran. Why then only Muslims who do not know the
‘True Islam’ are going around committing inhuman atrocities, all
over the world? If you think Islam will leave you alone, if you leave them
alone; then dream on, until it is too late. A similar situation is with Iran.
Having got their Islamic Republic of Iran; instead of spending their high oil/gas revenue on
the country and people, Iran is funding almost every Islamic atrocity from the Philippines to California and from Indonesia to Russia – think about this.
It is an undeniable fact that, Islam
was spread by the sword; all over the world, before the 11th
century. But, when people realized the falsehood and absurdities of Islam, they
got wiser, and Islam failed just as quickly, all over the world [See article,
‘Why did Islam fail disastrously in these countries’]. Today, Islam
is in further decline and even confirmed by Islamic scholars/clergies’
point of view. [See Article, ‘Islam in Fast Demise’]
Such is the irony of the Muslims, who
place their hopes and faith on such an idiotic Quran. Today, wherever you look
in the Islamic countries, you see them wallowing in cesspools filled with
crime, unhappiness, despair, hopelessness, decadence, insecurity, unhygienic,
natural calamities of earthquakes, cyclones, tsunami, sandstorms, lack of
water/electricity, lack of proper sanitation, etc, because this false Allah
does not answer their prayers. We have to admit that Muslims, possibly pray
the most, and yet this Allah does not grant them, with even the simplest and
basic things in life.
Believe me when I tell you, that all
those Islamic inhuman atrocities committed all over the world, is
initiated/influenced by Islamic clergies learned in the Quran, by using a
Muslim ‘sucker’ or a frustrated Muslim desperado to do the bidding
of Allah as in the Quran. But the obvious and evident hypocrisy is that, these
taught Islamic clergy who supposedly pretend to be so faithful to this Allah;
they themselves do not commit suicide for the sake of Allah, but manipulate and
cheat others to kill themselves, instead.
Dear readers, please send/share this
article, to/with as many people as you can. Thank You.
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76 comments:
Blogger kills me. No matter what I do in an effort to correct something, the formatting of the post keeps changing upon publication. In any event, I have decided to simply leave the post the way it is now, excessive spacing and all, and simply beg the indulgence of the readers.
Great Article, what is funny about the Muslim argument that Kangaroo uses
"Anyways,the Jews trying to get Jesus (as) were tricked into thinking they caught him, instead they caught someone else who looked similar to him, possibly one of his disciples,"
Is that a Muslim can not believe that a innocent Jesus would die for the sins of the world, but they have no problems in believing that a sinner would die for a innocent Jesus.
Also he makes the claim, that the disciple who was killed in Jesus stead "KNEW THE TRUTH ABOUT JESUS ASCENDING TO THE HEAVENS TOWARDS GOD" So the diciple who knows that Islamic Truth about Jesus is killed.
He then makes the claim that it was "only those that were already deceived, those that rejected Jesus from the beginning spread the lie that he died and then resurrected. "
So the disciple that knows the truth is killed, and those that have already been deceived are allowed to spread this lie. Looks to me like Allah made a big mistake here and killed the wrong disciple.
He then makes the claim that
"Mary (ra) saw her son, Jesus (as) ascending towards the sky, and she cried. That is the true story"
So Mary saw her son ascending to heaven its "a true story" but some how Mary, Jesus own mother was unable to convince the other disciples that he did not die, I guess because the disciple who did know that he did not die, was in fact himself Killed.
Muslims never cease to amaze me when they try to explain away the nonsense in there book of lies. The make Islam sound that much worse by trying to explain it away.
But thats what you get when you have a language where the word "Maybe" could mean a certainty. As Bassam Zawadi has stated in written as well as public debate.
What's more doubtful?
1.)Blindly following the writings of the Jew next door.
2.)Following a text that has no serious questions about its authenticity and is INTACT with no changes, today.
I'm not saying that the entire Bible is rubbish, I'm only syaing that there have been changes made to the original text and additions. Even ONE modification to a text deems it unreliable, especially when it changes the status of a Messiah Prophet to that of God, which is creation worship, which is another tactic by Satan to lead mankind into the Hellfire.
I don't know about you, but there have been recent talk on CNN about the Bible's corruption, check it out maybe?
Science is currently eliminating models of God. The Christian Trinity has already been wiped, but most of you are too afraid to admit it. Not only that, but historically as well:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/7651105.stm
So the kangaroo says that we cannot blindly follow the writings of a Jew. How about the writings of an Arab?
Then he attacks the Bible through Biblical criticism and deems one textual error to refute the entire book. That is not very academic.
He wants us to trust CNN...lol...it gets better.
He sees the Trinity as unscientific...excuse me, many scientists recon the existence of God to be unscientific, can kangaroo be a bit more consistent here?
He does not wanna refer to the whole Bible as rubbish, in other words, some of it is, in other words kangaroo, is not even a muslim, according to his own holy books. So what parts of the Bible are rubbish, did Muhammad ever refer to the Gospel or parts of the Gospel in his time as rubbish? Oh yeah I guess Kangaroo refers to the original Gospel, but where does the Qur'an differentiate between a Gospel in the first century and the Gospel utilized by the Christians in the sixth century?
Furthermore, does he truly believe the Qur'an to be intact. It is virtually filled with errors, borrowing of sources (I have an entire blog focusing on the scientific errors in the Qur'an, so far Muslims evade this topic), and as to textual criticism, what is the basic source Muslims base the original text upon?
Is it Uthman's version that contradicted the Qur'ans that preceeded it?
Kangoroo, are you familiar with the saying: 'he who is without sin, cast the first stone', perhaps you should put your stone back on the ground and do some research.
"Blindly following the writings of the Jew next door", Kangaroo?
The Hebrew Bible was written by numerous Jews, not just one apparently illiterate man of dubious mental health (and I don't say that to insult Muhammad; I say that because Muslim sources openly suggest so).
Even if you are referring to the pauline writings of the New Testament, you're mistaken in referring to him as 'the Jew next door'. Paul's writings show him to have been in possession of a brilliant philosophical mind, with a grasp of the Hebrew scriptures that was second to none. He certainly has higher credentials than Muhammad.
Furthermore, when it comes to general intelligence, and especially scientific knowledge, as a group I'd trust the Jews above anyone else.
There are only a few million Jews but they have excelled in every field of human endeavour, in spite of thousand of years of persecution; they have achieved what 1.5 billion Muslims couldn't even dream of achieving, especially in the field of science.
Yet Muslims have the scientifically miraculous Qur'an, and Jews don't. If the Qur'an was really scientifically miraculous, Muslims would have raced ahead scientifically. Muslims would have used the Qur'an as a jumping-off point for many scientific explorations, leading to incredible new discoveries and inventions. Muslims would have been scouring its pages for indications of what they could potentially discover.
This didn't happen.
You seem like a young man and I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you do not harbour any malic or hatred towards Jews, and that your reference to 'the Jew next door' was meant to be disparaging towards the Christian faith, not Jews in general.
One more point regarding the supposed scientifically miraculous nature of Islam, which you seem to take as the truth:
Here in the UK, many Pakistani Muslims marry their cousins.
An NHS source says "50-60% of British Pakistani marriages are consanguineous, and this proportion is rising."
According to BBC news, "British Pakistanis are 13 times more likely to have children with genetic disorders than the general population - they account for just over 3% of all births but have just under a third of all British children with such illnesses.
Birmingham Primary Care Trust estimates that one in ten of all children born to first cousins in the city either dies in infancy or goes on to develop serious disability as a result of a recessive genetic disorder."
(Birmingham being one of the cities with the highest number of Muslims in the country).
The (UK) Times reports that "10 per cent of the children of first cousins die in infancy or have a disability".
Under British law, people may marry their cousins, and indeed the royal family were rather inbred for a long time as most European aristocratic classes were in the past, but only within the British Muslim community (specifically, among Pakistani Muslims) does it still occur with any frequency. This may be largely due to an acceptance among the majority population of the fact that cousin marriages produce children with often severe birth defects, while the Pakistani community is reluctant to accept this fact for cultural and religious reasons. Therefore, the practice has largely died out among non-Pakistani British people.
Cousin marriage has brought a lot of difficulty and ill-health to Pakistani Muslims, yet they are only following the (perfect) example of Muhammad, who married his cousin.
If the Qur'an contains so many concrete scientific miracles, why did Allah allow Muhammad to set an example to do something that modern genetic science shows us is so genetically damaging to humanity? Why did Allah fill the Qur'an with miraculous descriptions of embryology yet encourage, via Muhammad's (perfect) example, a practice which creates damaged embryos? Why was it so important to Allah to conatin descriptions of a freshwater/seawater barrier in the Qur'an yet he didn't use his scientific knowledge to prevent the enormous genetic damage done to Muslims by cousin marriages?
"Following a text that has no serious questions about its authenticity and is INTACT with no changes, today"....
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha...
I eben cryied a tear laughting...
two off the greatest jokes in the world in juste one sentence...
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha...
how can someone bee so delusional?
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha...
As a Muslim, I HAVE to believe that the present day Bible and Torah are corrupted versions of the
true revelations. Why are you accusing me of not being a Muslim?..I'm not going to insult the entire Bible altogether because I KNOW it includes many of the true words of God.
@Sophie-bring me evidence that proves your claim. (demon possesed? Is that what you meant?...)
-The Jew next door. The jews have killed off many of the previous prophets and they failed in trying
to kill Jesus (as). There were special plans for him later in the future...I hope you know what I
mean.
-We are allowed to marry our cousins, just like we're allowed to have sex with the slaves that we might own. It doesn't mean it is recommended, but it is PERMISSIBLE.
The National Society of Genetic Counselors estimated the increased risk for first cousins is
between 1.7 to 2.8 percent, or about the same a any woman over 40 years of age.
http://www.springerlink.com/content/uxwm5qr18j5lgrdt
It's not even a big problem...but from your point of view it seems bad...Tell me..What does the
Bible say about cousin marriages? Does it prophibit?..No?...Thought so....That would make your lord
Jesus fallible. Just like the sun revolving around the earth or the flat earth. Or the plants
growing before the sun even existed *cough*.
@Fernando- I'm glad I made a Christian laugh at his own Bible.
Kanagaroo,
Insisting that the Qur'an has "no changes" is hardly helpful here. In fact, aside from the fact that your asserition is not true, even if we grant that it is true, this is positively detrimental to your claim that the Qur'an is the word of God. After all, this would only prove that one of the errors I have already pointed out in Surah 4:157 must be laid right at the doorstep of your god and prophet. If the Qur'an is wrong on what it says in the above verse, insisting that the text of the Qur'an exactly the same today as it was when Allah and his associate Muhammad and their other helpers came up with it only means that the their error in 4:157 has been perfectly preserved.
You said that even one change to a text render it unreliable. While this isn't true as a matter of textual criticism where we can compare and collate the manuscripts and determine the original reading, it is most certainly true that even one ERROR in a perfectly preserved text is enough to show that the author was/is not infallible.
The problem you have goes like this:
P1: If the Qur'an is the word of the true God, then there would be no mistakes or discrepancies in it (S. 4:82)
P2: The Qur'an does contain mistakes (S. 4:157)
.: Therefore, the Qur'an is not the word of God
The argument above is valid as to its form. Unless you can show an error in the premises, then the conclusion follows like night follows day. Since the first premise is true according to your own Qur'an, the only way for you to prove that the argument is unsound is to refute the second premise (which I argued for in the main blog post).
Since you didn't even attempt to interact with the post, the argument stands unrefuted at this point. I hope that clarifies the problem for you.
"Science is currently eliminating models of God. The Christian Trinity has already been wiped, but most of you are too afraid to admit it."
Please do elaborate on this point. I don't understand how science could, even in principle, eliminate a Trinitarian model of God. And I suspect that you don't either.
Alright. One way I is simply to compare the scientific and historical records of both textts.
In the 19th and 20th century when the study of Hieroglyphics began to revive the language of the ancient Egyptians; a French Doctor Maurice Bucaille, was studying history and came across this disparity in the Qur’an and the Bible. So he went to Egyptologist to get to the root of the person named “Haman”. What he discovered was at the estimated time of Moses, there was a man who was named ‘Haman’ and he was a worker of the Pharaoh and his duty was “The Chief of the workers in the stone-quarries.” SubhanAllah (Glory be to Allah) just as the Qur’an described it. So Dr. Bucaille went to one of the French Egyptologist and told him that the a man in 7th century who claimed to a Messenger of God, said that there was a man named Haman and that he was an architect for the Pharaoh. He was later told that this book was the Qur’an, and the Egyptologist responded:
“Had the Bible or any other literary work, composed during a period when the hieroglyphs could still be deciphered, quoted ‘Haman,’ the presence in the Qur’an of this word might have not drawn special attention. But, it is a fact that the hieroglyphs had been totally forgotten at the time of the Qur’anic Revelation and that no one could not read them until the 19th century AD. Since matters stood like that in ancient times, the existence of the word ‘Haman’ in the Qur’an suggests a special reflection.”
Not just that alone, there was a statue found in Egypt, which is currently in a museum in Australia of an ancient architect from the time of the Pharaohs, with his name sketched into stone, ‘Haman.’
http://invitation2islam.wordpress.com/2009/03/25/how-the-qur%E2%80%99an-corrected-the-errors-of-the-bible/
Goodbye book of Esther.
Now we don’t know if this is the same Haman as mentioned in the Qur’an, but the Qur’an has the correct location, the correct name, the correct occupation, and the correct timing, none of which the Bible has.
Biblical science tells us that the evening and morning were made before the earth and sun even existed, the earth is created before light and stars, and flowering plants were created before any animals. Science says otherwise.
Compare the two and you'll find the Quran outweighs the Bible in science and history.
Kangaroo said, "@Fernando- I'm glad I made a Christian laugh at his own Bible."
Kangaroo, Fernando is laughing at your statement about the Quran being intact and authentic and not at his Bible.
Here are two reasons why he might be laughing so much about your statement:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91AM7665cbo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y40X6ykSQlE
Kangaroo,
Challenge for you: Can you show me anywhere in the Quran, just one verse would suffice, where it says that the Gospel is corrupted in any way shape or form? Thanks.
Kangaroo wrote
As a Muslim, I HAVE to believe that the present day Bible and Torah are corrupted versions of the
true revelations.
Hogan replies:
Did you all get that, Kangaroo has to believe in something that contradicts his own holy book to remain a muslim. that is standing on sinking ground.
Kangaroo wrote:
Why are you accusing me of not being a Muslim?..I'm not going to insult the entire Bible altogether because I KNOW it includes many of the true words of God.
Hogan replies:
The Qur'an specific that you have to believe in all the revelations as they appeared in Muhammad's, otherwise you left the true path of Allah. In other words you are not a Muslim, I do not consider you a muslim. A Muslim who can't follow and believe in his own holy book, is not a muslim. But then again you said, you have to believe in doctrines that oppose the Qur'an to be a Muslim, in other words, is it the Qur'an you have a problem with, or what, this is fairly confusing.
Also you maintain that one error in the Bible would render the entire book unreliable, unfortunately for you, you fail to realise that the Bible consists of 66 books. But then again if one error mistakes the difference, why do you justify your assumption that the Bible is rubbish by saving your soul saying that you do believe parts of it to be true. So which parts are true and which are not and based upon what?
Kangaroo wrote
Jesus fallible. Just like the sun revolving around the earth or the flat earth. Or the plants
growing before the sun even existed *cough*.
Hogan replies:
So Jesus made errors, is such a claim not blaspemous. So does the Bible say specifically that the earth is flat, in scientific terms and where. I know which passage you will quote, and you do realise that the Qur'an utilizes the same passages. You claim also that the sun orbits the earth, I do know that such a description is used in the Psalms, but the Psalms is a metaphorical book of songs, its a book where trees clap their hands. Can you show me a descriptive reference from a verse which is not metaphorical. Do you want me to show you numerous passages in the Qur'an that reveal the sun and moon orbiting the earth in parallel lines to determine day and night. And as to the plants prior to the sun, there indeed existed a light prior to the plants, but if you read on in Genesis chapter one, the chapter will tell you where that light came from, yeah, exactly the sun.
Oh yeah, Kangaroo, this is what I previously wrote about the sun and moon orbiting parallely around the earth:
http://debunkingquranicscience.blogspot.com/2010/08/does-sun-orbit-earth-according-to-quran.html
Yeah Hogan. It took me a few seconds to come up with the refutation....
Seems to me, closed minded missionaries as yourself have a lot of trouble understanding simple concepts.
Just for giggles, what is your IQ?
I wonder why my comments are being hidden.
Am i causing too much of a rucus?
Perhaps you prefer brainwashing future generations with creation-worship.
Kangaroo,
I haven't "hidden" a single comment from you. If you falsely accuse me again, I will block you.
Looks Like Kangaroo is getting ready to hip-pity hop hop right out of the blog.
I still would love to see Kangaroo in an Acts 17 debate. He has too many people to answer to this way, and he might be pretty good, in a debate.
Can't he be invited?
Dear Kangaroo... I bet you made another typical mystique: I laughed at your totally false and stupid claimes... how delusional can someone bee? I thought only in Psychiatric wards one could find someone like you...
I have no idea if the Bible prohibits cousin marriage or not.
That's irrelevant, however, because I haven't claimed the Bible is scientifically miraculous, as you have claimed for the Qur'an. Therefore I don't have to defend the idea that God would write in detail about the stages of development of babies in the womb but neglect to prohibit or limit a practice which produces a comparatively high rate of often severe genetic defects in babies and premature death, even encouraging the practice via Muhammad's 'perfect' example of marrying Zainab. This is not my belief to defend - it's yours.
I didn't mean that Muhammad was demon-possessed.
The sources depict a man who displays signs of mental instability. This is a statement of fact, not faith, since suicide attempts and delusions are both signs of mental instability. Please take notice of what I'm saying: I'm saying he *showed signs* of mental instability, not that he *was* mentally unstable.
"he intended several times to throw himself from the tops of high mountains"
http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/bukhari/087.sbt.html
"Magic was worked on Allah's Apostle so that he used to think that he had sexual relations with his wives while he actually had not"
http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/bukhari/071.sbt.html
People who show signs of mental instability are considered less trustworthy than others.
Unless your assumption is that somehow, on balance, all Jews are inherently untrustworthy, or that next door neighbours are inherently untrustworthy, or that all Jewish next door neighbours are inherently untrustworthy, you have given no indication of why Muhammad -mentally unstable as he appeared to be - is more trustworthy than 'the Jew next door'.
YUSUFALI: That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
Here is another explicit verse speaking of Bible corruption, the Quran states that if anyone believes that Jesus died and was crucified they then follow nothing but CONJECTURE which is corruption. Which book today tells us that Jesus died and was crucified? The Bible, so hence the Quran here does call the Bible corrupt. So it can't get anymore clear than that.
http://muslim-responses.com/the_Quran_on_the_Bible/the_Quran_on_the_Bible_
Easy questions. Easy solutions.
The Gospel given to Jesus, NOT Matthew, Luke or John.
"The Gospel given to Jesus, NOT Matthew, Luke or John."
The problem with this is
- No 'Gospel' given to Jesus has been preserved.
- There is no mention in history that such a Gospel EVER existed in pre-Islamic times
- Yet the Quran commands people to judge according to what Allah has revealed in this supposed Gospel.
In conclusion, not only is it impossible to do what the Quran requires of the 'people of the Book', but in fact all historical information we have points to the 'Gospel revealed to Jesus' being an entirely fictional book, based purely on a fabrication, or rather, a misunderstanding on the part of the Quran's (human) author.
You say that the gospels are just conjecture.
If the claims made in the gospels about Christ's crucifixion are just conjecture, then in what way is the Qur'anic assertion that Christ wasn't crucified anything more than conjecture?
Also, to reiterate what Anthony Rogers has already stated:
The problem you have goes like this:
P1: If the Qur'an is the word of the true God, then there would be no mistakes or discrepancies in it (S. 4:82)
P2: The Qur'an does contain mistakes (S. 4:157)
.: Therefore, the Qur'an is not the word of God
The argument above is valid as to its form. Unless you can show an error in the premises, then the conclusion follows like night follows day. Since the first premise is true according to your own Qur'an, the only way for you to prove that the argument is unsound is to refute the second premise (which I argued for in the main blog post).
Since you didn't even attempt to interact with the post, the argument stands unrefuted at this point. I hope that clarifies the problem for you.
The Gospel given to Jesus
hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha...
if ignorance should pay taxes, muslims like mr. kangaroo (who strangely keeps on trying to redirect people to other sites -- full of lies, historical rewriting and logical vacuity -- as he lacks total personal arguments) would bee as poor as sand desert...
hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha...
Please, David, please, please, please don't block Kangaroo.
Mr. kangaroo spoke off Maurice Bucaille (quoting again from another site)?
hahahahahahahaha... it's like speaking off Mister Magoo when referring to people with 100% vision...
hahahahahahahaha...
don't you know he was totally discredited after recognizing habing been payied money from Saudi Arabia (iff I well remember) to "invent" proofs off qur'ans miracoulous origin?
hahahahahahahaha...
don't you see the clownesque patern in your own words?
hahahahahahahaha...
do you know thate in his Haman's claime he said he was following the "Dictionary of Personal Names of the New Kingdom" by Ranke? Well... thate book neber existed!!! only stupid people (like those who payied him) belived in him...
hahahahahahahaha...
more: there is no such thing, as Bucaille said, as a correct transliteration from the egiptian name off the “The Chief of the workers in the stone-quarries” and Haman... the egipcian hierogliph can be read in many ways (Baman-ha, Taman-ha, Paman-ha, Maman-ha) butt neber as Haman: not withe a H and neber without the final "ha"... (see Hermann Ranke - Die Ägyptischen Personennamen, Band I (Verzeichnis der Namen), Verlag von J. J. Augustin in Glückstadt, 1935)
hahahahahahahaha...
more: the fact thate the book off Esther might be composed off cathechetical tales and not a historical book does not mean it is anauthentic. Do you knowe what are the litterary genre? do you claime thate all the bible is in teh historical genre? do you mean that a book thate is not, and never wanted to be, an historical text is anauthentic? how stupid can someone be to say what you saide?
hahahahahahahaha...
Every Prophet has mental "instability" in the beginnnig, when God reaches out to Him or by an angel. Finding yourself in front of a being whose wings extend across the horizon is a horific sight, especially when you have NO IDEA WHAT IT IS AT FIRST..Put yourself in that situation please.
Yeah the Prophet Muhamamd (pbuh) was affected by black magic whih cuased him to have dleusional thoughts about his wives. But it doesn't affect anything else in his life. It's as simple as me having a day dream about having sex with my future wife..? Not even a big problem. Then the angel Gabriel came to the Prophet (pbuh) and informed him of where the comb was and he actually found it. That tells us something doesnt it?
@Lindert-
That's the point. The head of all of this corruption seems to point at Paul, and others throughout history as well. Only the priests or popes or religious leaders kept the Bible and they altered it to whatever they thought fit. Possibly the "changing of times" or whatever their desires wanted to include in it.
Seriously. Consider and reflect. We have only the first names of Jews who supposedly were inspired by God, yet weren't Prophets? And we have no clue who they were WHATSOEVER. Not even a college professor would accept a paper with only the name "Jake" on it, for example. I wouldn't either. Idk about you. People can easily twist historical data especially when it is contained in the hands of so few.
So why is it people prefer blind faith? lol. I don't even need that much evidence, only a simple combination of logic to refute all of Christianity.
Never will I believe, for one second or one hour, that the Jews "boasted" of killing Jesus.
The Jews were just the Jews.
A people living in a Roman client state in the Near East, nothing more.
Their theocracy, a small group of men divided by the prospect of the afterlife, was partially responsible.
Rome was also responsible.
Boasts?
There were none.
Lies?
There is one-- Islam, the false words of a false prophet.
Mr. kangaroo saide: "CONJECTURE which is corruption"...
so, in other wordes: to him conjecture = corruption...
hahahahahahahahahahahaha...
more: dear fellow: all the evidences point to the fact thate Jesus was crucified... only the mith-full qur'an sais otherwise...
hahahahahahahahahahahaha...
Kangaroo,
A Christian brother sent me the following regarding your comments on Haman (above), which I glossed over once I realized they were not relevant to the main blog post:
---------Quote------------
You may want to point him to
The Haman Hoax
for a detailed discussion and complete refutation of these matters.
But he managed to add another error which I had not seen yet when he claims:
"Not just that alone, there was a statue found in Egypt, which is currently in a museum in Australia of an ancient architect from the time of the Pharaohs, with his name sketched into stone, ‘Haman.’
Now we don’t know if this is the same Haman as mentioned in the Qur’an, but the Qur’an has the correct location, the correct name, the correct occupation, and the correct timing, none of which the Bible has."
That is utter nonsense.
1. The name of the person depicted by this statue is Hemiunu, not Haman.
2. He lived more than 1000 years before the time of Moses.
These issues are discussed in detail in the second part of this appendix:
Appendix 5
3. He claims the status is in Australia which is wrong. It resides in Germany, in the Roemer- and Pelizaeus-Museum in Hildesheim. The only plans for showing it abroad were for 2013 to give it to Egypt for the new opening of the Grand Museum in Cairo, though I don't t know if this is still going to happen, given the volatile political
situation in Egypt. A German website talks about the statue going to Egypt in 2013:
http://www.shortnews.de/id/82615/
Hildesheimer-Museum-gewaehrt-
Verleih-der-beruehmten-Hemiunu-
Statue-an-Aegypten
--------End Quote--------
Note: Because the last link is to an article in German and blogger will not support the correspondig fonts, I have supplied the url. Furtherore, becuase blogger has a habit of cutting out parts of the full link when strung together, I have broken the whole thing down into four lines. In other words, for those who want to go to the link, just copy and paste all four lines in the address line as a single, unbroken url.
edit: "status" should be "statue"
Kangaroo is really jumping around when he said...
"Now we don’t know if this is the same Haman as mentioned in the Qur’an, but the Qur’an has the correct location, the correct name, the correct occupation, and the correct timing, none of which the Bible has."
Kangaroo, actually the opposite is true, when it comes to history, the Quran has the WRONG location, THE WRONG NAMES, and the WRONG occupations of just about every historical reference in the Quran.
Let me give you a few examples.
1. Islam tradition has it that Ishamel settled in Mecca, and that the Arabs worshiped a God named Allah.
Sounds nice but there is one small problem, Mecca didn't exist until the 4th century AD. Second there is no reference to any Arab tribe, going back to the 3rd MIL BC worshiping a single monotheistic God named Allah.
I copied and pasted the 4 lines, but it doesn't work. I reached the webpage but it doesn't lead to anywhere.
"Can't reach the news" o.o
Part 1/2
mkvine said:
Kangaroo,
Challenge for you: Can you show me anywhere in the Quran, just one verse would suffice, where it says that the Gospel is corrupted in any way shape or form? Thanks.
Kangaroo replied:
YUSUFALI: That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:- [S. 4:157]
Here is another explicit verse speaking of Bible corruption, the Quran states that if anyone believes that Jesus died and was crucified they then follow nothing but CONJECTURE which is corruption. Which book today tells us that Jesus died and was crucified? The Bible, so hence the Quran here does call the Bible corrupt. So it can't get anymore clear than that.
My Reply:
Kangaroo,
First, I would like to know what you mean above when you refer to Surah 4:157 as "another" verse that proves Bible corruption. Where in the world did you give the first verse? You do realize that you can't have "another" one unless you already have one, don't you?
Second, I have already shown in the main blog post, which you have yet to address, that this verse is in error (and that Muslims are consequently reducted to conjecture and doubt as displayed by their vain attempts at resolving the problem). So appealing to this verse in an attempt to prove Bible corruption only proves that you aren't paying attention.
Of course you might reply to this by saying, "Whether or not you believe this verse is free from error does not detract from the point I was making, which is that the Qur'an contradicts the Bible's teaching that Jesus was crucified, which in turn means that, right or wrong, the Qur'an does teach that the Bible has been corrupted." In response to this, see next point.
Part 2/2
Third, the argument for Bible corruption from this verse of the Qur'an is fallacious. It assumes that the author of this verse believed he was contradicting the Bible when he said that Jesus was not crucified. Not only may we well question whether the author(s) of this verse were in error on this point, especially since he/she/they often accused "the people of the book" of lying to him/her/them about what was in the Scriptures, in which case he/she/they could have simply held that Christians were lying to him/her/them at this point about the Bible teaching the crucifixion, but it is also the case that the author may have simply held a different interpretation of what the verses on the crucifixion actually mean, a fact not uncommon among cultists in our own day who wrest the Scriptures to mean something other than what they clearly say. Indeed, the Qur'an itself gives evidence that its author(s) was/were influenced by heretical Christian sects and ideas.
Besides all this, the argument is fallacious because it assumes that the Qur'an is the Word of God and cannot err. Allow me to illustrate:
Christians argue that the Qur'an undermines its own claim to be the inerrant Word of God by contradicting the previous Scriptures, which the Qur'an itself confirms to be the uncorrupted Word of God.
When you try and answer the challenge in the following way, if I may paraphrase your reasoning:
The Qur'an must teach Bible corruption because otherwise it would undermine its own claim to be the inerrant Word of God by contradicting what it says about the previous Scriptures, i.e. that they are the uncorrupted Word of God.
you are simply engaging in circular reasoning, assuming that the Qur'an cannot be in manifest error or that it cannot contradict itself because it is the Word of God.
In other words, the Qur'an contradicts itself by teaching BOTH that the Scriptures are trustworthy and by contradicting what is taught in the previous Scriptures. Your argument does not address this problem; it simply tries to make an end run around it.
Fourth, it is not even clear (as I will show in a future post on further problems with Surah 4:157) that the author(s) of the verse in question are saying that the Messiah was not crucified (another thing that is obscured by various translations). In fact, Muslim sources themselves are not in agreement on whether or not the verse is actually teaching that Jesus was not crucified. But I'm getting ahead of myself with this last point. Stay tuned...
P.S. Do you have anything else in your bag of tricks (or should I say, "...in your pouch full of Joey's"?)?
Yeah i was wrong about the statue. I sincerely apologize for being ignorant. Sorry brother.
But I don't believe the Haman mentioned in the Quran contradicts what was found in Egypt.
Christian missionaries are based solely on the assumptions that:
Because the Bible has been in existence longer than the Qur'an, the Biblical account is the correct one, as opposed to the Qur'anic account, which is necessarily inaccurate and false.
The Bible is in conformity with firmly established secular knowledge, whereas the Qur'an contains certain incompatibilities.
Muhammad copied and in some cases altered the Biblical material when composing the Qur'an.
Let us now examine the passages in the Qur'an concerning the Pharaoh and Haman in light of recent historical and archaeological discoveries.
Pharaoh said: "O Chiefs! no god do I know for you but myself." [Qur'an 28:38]
Pharaoh said: "O Haman! Build me a lofty palace, that I may attain the ways and means - The ways and means of (reaching) the heavens, and that I may mount up to the god of Moses: But as far as I am concerned, I think (Moses) is a liar!" [Qur'an 40:36-37]
Bucaille narrates an interesting discussion he had with a prominent French Egyptologist:
In the book Reflections on the Qur'an (Réflexions sur le Coran[60]), I have related the result of such a consultation that dates back to a dozen years ago and led me to question a specialist who, in addition, knew well the classical Arabic language. One of the most prominent French Egyptologists, fulfilling these conditions, was kind enough to answer the question.
I showed him the word "Haman" that I had copied exactly like it is written in the Qur'an, and told him that it had been extracted from a sentence of a document dating back to the 7th century AD, the sentence being related to somebody connected with Egyptian history.
He said to me that, in such a case, he would see in this word the transliteration of a hieroglyphic name but, for him, undoubtedly it could not be possible that a written document of the 7th century had contained a hieroglyphic name - unknown until that time - since, in that time, the hieroglyphs had been totally forgotten.
In order to confirm his deduction about the name, he advised me to consult the Dictionary of Personal Names of the New Kingdom by Ranke, where I might find the name written in hieroglyphs, as he had written before me, and the transliteration in German.
I discovered all that had been presumed by the expert, and, moreover, I was stupefied to read the profession of Haman: "The Chief of the workers in the stone-quarries," exactly what could be deduced from the Qur'an, though the words of the Pharaoh suggest a master of construction.
When I came again to the expert with a photocopy of the page of the Dictionary concerning "Haman" and showed him one of the pages of the Qur'an where he could read the name, he was speechless...
Moreover, Ranke had noted, as a reference, a book published in 1906 by the Egyptologist Walter Wreszinski: the latter had mentioned that the name of "Haman" had been engraved on a stela kept at the Hof-Museum of Vienna (Austria). Several years later, when I was able to read the profession written in hieroglyphs on the stela, I observed that the determinative joined to the name had emphasised the importance of the intimate of Pharaoh.[61]
Read the rest if you haven't already;
http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Contrad/External/haman.html#4d
Gl trying to refute that. =)
Sorry, the following sentence should be read as:
"Not only may we well question whether the author(s) of this verse THOUGHT HE/SHE/THEY WERE CONTRADICTING THE BIBLE on this point, especially since he/she/they often accused "the people of the book" of lying to him/her/them about what was in the Scriptures, in which case he/she/they could have simply held that Christians were lying to him/her/them at this point about the Bible teaching the crucifixion...."
Sorry, not sure what is up with the links.
Try this link for a thoroughing refutation of the claims of Maurice Bucaille, Islamic Awareness, and Harun Yahya to boot.
Here
or here: http://www.answering-islam.org/authors/katz/haman.html
By the way, since your comments regarding Haman are off topic and are simply a cut and paste job, I hope you don't mind if I have simply directed you to a link to refute your errors in regard to this subject. I wouldn't want you to think that I was simply endorsing your approach to answering others, which is simply to ignore the topic and link to the replies of others and unrelated issues.
Do you think you will ever get around to discussing the blog post, or will you just be bringing up new errors to be corrected on?
Kangaroo,
The passage that you quoted which supposedly proves that the Bible is corrupted, namely Surah 4:157, was already dealt with by Anthony Rogers in this very post! Unless you can refute what he said, then I would refrain from using that verse as proof for biblical corruption. It seems like you jumped into the comments section without reading what he said...
1.)It’s just one of the many verses that I have to keep quoting for Christians to reference to. In my mind, it’s another verse that I found.
2.)I believe it was the third comment when I “attempted to”.
3.) The author clearly isn’t influenced by any Christian sects. Most of the Christians are claimed to be perverts and corrupt for disbelieving in the Quran and editing their own Bible. And there weren’t too many Christians preaching the Bible in pagan Mecca, nor any record of Christian influence there..No more than a few Christians lived there. Perhaps those “cultists” are right, and you wrong?
009.030
YUSUFALI: The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!
009.031
YUSUFALI: They take their priests and their anchorites to be their lords in derogation of Allah, and (they take as their Lord) Christ the son of Mary; yet they were commanded to worship but One Allah: there is no god but He. Praise and glory to Him: (Far is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him).
009.032
YUSUFALI: Fain would they extinguish Allah's light with their mouths, but Allah will not allow but that His light should be perfected, even though the Unbelievers may detest (it).
009.033
YUSUFALI: It is He Who hath sent His Messenger with guidance and the Religion of Truth, to proclaim it over all religion, even though the Pagans may detest (it).
009.034
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! there are indeed many among the priests and anchorites, who in Falsehood devour the substance of men and hinder (them) from the way of Allah. And there are those who bury gold and silver and spend it not in the way of Allah: announce unto them a most grievous penalty-
Idk where you’re coming up with circular reasoning, I never referred to the Quran talking about the scriptures today as perfect. There’s your evidence ^^. A basic concept that the Quran teaches about other scriptures is that they were revealed in Truth to the Prophets, but throughout history they’ve been edited.
The Law that came with Prophet 'Eesa (Jesus) abrogated part of the Law that came with Moosa (Moses) . Relating the words of Prophet 'Eesa to the Children of Israel, Almighty Allaah Says (what means): "And I have come confirming that which was before me of the Torah and to make lawful to you part of what was forbidden to you…" [Quran 3:50]
The Islamic Law is lasting, remaining suitable for every place and time, and embracing the goodness of the previous manifestations of the Law. Allaah Says (what means): “And We have revealed to you, [O Muhammad], the Book in truth, confirming that which preceded it of the Scripture and as a criterion over it." [Quran 5:48]
In Surah 4:157, it is quite clear what it means? “That they said in boast, “We killed the Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of God – but they DID NOT KILL him, nor crucify him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no CERTAIN knowledge but only conjecture to follow, for CERTAIN. they did not kill him.”
Yusuf Ali version.
I'm just saying..the people who added to the revelation of Jesus (as) are random people whom you have no clear, detailed history about besides what the Bible says. If it isn't worthy of accepting only the first name of a student on a college essay, then the Bible today shouldn't be used to be relied on through blind faith, especially when the Quran, with tons of evidence behind it, has fundamental differences in belief of the One True God.
Soon.
Nvm.
I was pretty disappointed after reading this post by Anthony Rogers (you).
http://answering-islam.org/authors/rogers/most_kind.html
Sounds like a last ditch resort trying to give the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) divine names.
Nothing worth refuting here because the reader can see for himself.
Disappointing. If only Christian missionaries were truthful I wouldn't mind having discussions with them, but this is just sad, unless you have any other excuses.
I'm done here lol. I actually had some trust in the teammates of this blog.
Kangaroo Said.... Part 1
"Christian missionaries are based solely on the assumptions that:
Because the Bible has been in existence longer than the Qur'an, the Biblical account is the correct one, as opposed to the Qur'anic account, which is necessarily inaccurate and false."
Actually the opposite is true. It is you Muslims who have the problem of believing that the Koran is the word of God so there for anything it says is true, and anything that says otherwise is false.
We Christians believe the bible for a number of reasons, but one reason is that unlike your Koran, every place we look that can be verified the bible is proved true.
More on that later, but now to tear apart the Hanan hoax that you re posted.
Like most hoaxes there are some key indicators. First lets take a look at what you posted.
"Bucaille narrates an interesting discussion he had with a prominent French Egyptologist:
In the book Reflections on the Qur'an (Réflexions sur le Coran[60]), I have related the result of such a consultation that dates back to a dozen years ago and led me to question a specialist who, in addition, knew well the classical Arabic language. One of the most prominent French Egyptologists, fulfilling these conditions, was kind enough to answer the question."
This is a tell, who is this "specialist" no name is given, no foundation or university is named where this alleged "specialist" works, all that is mentioned is that this "specialist" was consulted.
Kangaroo, do you know that name of this alleged specialist? Does a person even exist?
I find Kangaroo's posts be be like Islam.
Islam mocks holiness.
And his perspective mocks reason.
But to mock reason is not to be reasonable.
Kangaroo Said.... Part 2
You copied and pasted the following.
"Moreover, Ranke had noted, as a reference, a book published in 1906 by the Egyptologist Walter Wreszinski: the latter had mentioned that the name of "Haman" had been engraved on a stela kept at the Hof-Museum of Vienna (Austria). Several years later, when I was able to read the profession written in hieroglyphs on the stela, I observed that the determinative joined to the name had emphasized the importance of the intimate of Pharaoh.[61]"
There are a few problems with this. First the name of the Museum was changed several decades before Buccilla wrote his book.
"The museum is now called “Kunsthistorisches Museum”. The name was officially changed on 1 September 1921."
Second the insciption in question is not on a stone Stella but on a door post.
So with that said, Mr Buccilla could not of visited the Museum nor did he read the inscription.
Finally Mr Buccilla writes... "
the importance of the intimate of Pharaoh"
Pharaoh is not mentioned in the inscription.
So with that all said and done, don't you find this a little suspicious, and little dubious, a little dishonest and well just down right desperate?
@Kangaroo Part 3.
I could go on further but I think the point is clear, that with some honest reading and a little investigation, it is obvious that what Mr Buccilla wrote is nothing short of a fairy tale.
Really doesn't that say something to you, that a person has to be that dishonest to promote your faith?
Now there have been some hoaxes over the years when it comes to Christian Archeology. However Christians, examine these hoaxes and expose them for what they are a Hoax. We do not continue to promote them as a scientific find.
Now if your interested, here is a video, of a presentation by a REAL ARCHELOGIST, who is the dig supervisor in Jerusalem for a number of years. Its a hour and a half in length but it covers some of the major finds that have been discovered in recent years. Please take the time to watch it, and compare that to the nonsense that you posted.
Biblical Archeology
Some of the highlights is the recent discovery of King Davids Palace. The dig was proposed as a test of the bible. If the bible is correct then a huge complex of Phonecian design would be found under what is the the First Temple.
Well they found it, its huge and would of stood 6 stories tall.
Another remarkable find is that of the royal archive in Jerusalem that was destroyed by the Babylonians. The documents were destroyed but 51 seals where discovered, containing the names of 26 biblical characters. Of those listed.
Azaiah son of Hilliah (1 Chronicals 9)
Gemariah son of Shapan (Jeremiah 36)
Baruch, Jeremiah's personal scribe. One of these seals contains his thumb print. (Jeremiah 36)
Jerahmeel the kings son (Jeremiah 36)
Well I hope you take the time to watch it.
In conclusion, we Christians do not believe the bible because it came first, we believe the bible becasue it is prove true again and again and again.
The Quran on the other hand is prove false again and again and again. So much so that people have to make up fictious conversations with "Experts and Specialists" to promote your faith.
Kangaroo Said....
"Disappointing. If only Christian missionaries were truthful I wouldn't mind having discussions with them, but this is just sad, unless you have any other excuses."
This from a man who quotes a obvious fabrication by Islamic Dawagists. Not only is it a fabrication but a fairy tale, a complete lie.
I think you need to look in the mirror man before you start accusing people of being dishonest.
Kangaroo said...
"The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah,"
Wow Kangaroo proving the Koran is just wrong AGAIN. NO JEWS, NONE, ABSOLUTLY NONE has ever called "Uzair" a son of ALLAH
Kangaroo said...
"I'm just saying..the people who added to the revelation of Jesus (as) are random people whom you have no clear, detailed history about besides what the Bible says."
Wow, the Muslim mind never ceases to amaze me.
Kangaroo, below is link to the writings of the Apostolic Fathers, who lived in the First to Second Century.
After you view the Youtube video I posted on what are true scientific discoveries of Biblical Archeology. Not made up Islamic hoaxes. Please take time to read over what the first century Christians believed.
Apostolic Fathers
Kangaroo,
Now that it has been proven that your Haman hoax has been completly refuted by the AI team long long ago. I'm wondering if you can respond to the argument that Anthony Rogers put forth on this blog post.
Thank you
Wow I just noticed this.
Kangaroo said...
-We are allowed to marry our cousins, just like we're allowed to have sex with the slaves that we might own. It doesn't mean it is recommended, but it is PERMISSIBLE.
I agree with Donna
David please please do not ban Kangaroo, when he keeps coming up with gems like these.
Kangaroo said...
"Every Prophet has mental "instability" in the beginnnig, when God reaches out to Him or by an angel."
Name me one prophet other then Mohamed who had "mental instability" I mean really man. So the Islamic God chooses mentally unstable people for his prophets. LOL
And this one...
"Yeah the Prophet Muhamamd (pbuh) was affected by black magic whih cuased him to have dleusional thoughts about his wives. But it doesn't affect anything else in his life.
So Mohamed being put under the spell of Black Magic to make him think he had sex with his wives when in fact he had not is no big deal. LOL
For the longest time this story was the most absurd thing I had ever heard about Islam. Even more absurd then the Jinns. And then I saw a comerical for Viagra and it hit me.
Mohamed at some point became IMPOTENT. Now you cant have Allah apostle running around impotent, especially when so much of his sexual prows has become legendary. "He had the verality of a 100 men" etc...
So what is the solution, blame the JEWS lol. A Jew made Allah's apostle impotent. Oh those Jews, are all knowing and all wise.
Then there is this part...
"It's as simple as me having a day dream about having sex with my future wife..? Not even a big problem."
Putting your sexual fantasy's aside, evidently in Islam lusting after someone who is not your wife is not a problem. Why would it be when as Kangaroo admitted Muslims can have sex with their slaves.
And finally we have this gem.
"Then the angel Gabriel came to the Prophet (pbuh) and informed him of where the comb was and he actually found it. That tells us something doesnt it?"
Yes it does tell us something oh does it ever.
It tells us that the Angel Gabriel was powerless to prevent the Jews from making your prophet impotent. It tells us that it took some time for the Angel Gabriel to figure out what was causing Allahs Apostle to be impotent, it tells us that it took some time for the Angel Gabriel to find the comb and lift the spell.
In all that time you would think the Angel Gabriel could of inspired Mohamed to invent Viagra. Now that would be a Quranic Miracle. LOL
So David please please please don't take away our toy. I promise I will be good and eat all my vegetables from now on.
What's so funny is that they use the Quran as "evidence"... Yes... that's right... So, I can just write some 'noble book' and claim to have receive revelation from an angel and write in that book that Quran has been corrupted and present that as the "evidence". lol.
My definition of Islam: Bogus claims with no evidence.
Mormonism sure got a lot of things in common with Islam :)
Easy questions. Easy solutions.
Black magic is such a good story to learn from and laugh at those hwo claim it disproves prophethood.
-evil magic was worked on the prophet
-the magic did not affect the revelations of the Quran
-the prophet asked Allah for help, which means he was conscious of a problem
-Allah sent two angels to the prophet in a dream
-the angels told Muhammad where to go to find the materials that were used
-the prophet goes to the location, but he does not destroy the materials
-Allah himself has cured the prophet Muhammad
So as you can see this incident in the prophet's lifetime does NOT disprove his prophethood, rather it is a great proof and evidence that he is a prophet! He asks Allah for help, and Allah comes to his aid!
There is a whole moral and wisdom behind this story, and the wisdom behind this story is that if we are afflicted with some sort of evil then we must look and turn to Allah for the help and cure, because Allah is the only one who can protect and save us. This is the entire basis of this incident, that we put all our faith and trust in Allah.
As Allah himself says in the Noble Quran:
033.003
YUSUFALI: And put thy trust in Allah, and enough is Allah as a disposer of affairs.
007.196
YUSUFALI: "For my Protector is Allah, Who revealed the Book (from time to time), and He will choose and befriend the righteous.
003.150
YUSUFALI: Nay, Allah is your protector, and He is the best of helpers.
Lastly, all of us will be tested by God, including the prophet himself, therefore it should not surprise us if harm comes to the prophet, as the Quran says:
002.214
YUSUFALI: Or do ye think that ye shall enter the Garden (of bliss) without such (trials) as came to those who passed away before you? they encountered suffering and adversity, and were so shaken in spirit that even the Messenger and those of faith who were with him cried: "When (will come) the help of Allah?" Ah! Verily, the help of Allah is (always) near!
So in conclusion this hadith does not disprove Muhammad as a prophet, nor does it question his credibility. If anyone is honest with themselves they will accept the hadith for what it is, and what it says, that angels came to the prophet, and that Allah cured and healed the prophet Muhammad.
http://muslim-responses.com/Black_Magic_on_the_Prophet/Black_Magic_on_the_Prophet_
Again, you're assuming that I'm denying everything in the Bible.
I informed you before, I do not reject everything in the Bible, because not all of it is corrupt, and I wouldn't be surprised if many things in it became true, that actually increases my faith when it does become true. However I reject the Bible's reliablity because of editing in the past.
1- The Noble Quran was revealed to one person, and it was also recited by one person. The Bible was revealed to many people, and it was recited by many people.
2- The Noble Quran was memorized by Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him and his followers. They then documented it on paper. The Bible wasn't memorized by anyone, nor was documented by it's Prophets.
3- The Noble Quran was and still is recited in whole in the Holy Month of Ramadan, and recited partly during our daily prayers. So corrupting it during Prophet Muhammad's time was virtually impossible, because EVERYONE knew it. The Bible is not recited by anyone. It's own theologians today don't even have it memorized.
Having said all of the above points, it becomes now clear that the Noble Quran was much easier to maintain and protect than the Bible.
According to the Theologians and Historians of the Bible, most of the books and gospels of the Bible were written by MYSTERIOUS AUTHORS. No one really knows WHO THE REAL AUTHORS WERE!
"Serious doubts exists as to whether these verses belong to the Gospel of Mark. They are absent from important early manuscripts and display certain peculiarities of vocabulary, style and theological content that are unlike the rest of Mark. His Gospel probably ended at 16:8, or its original ending has been lost. (From the NIV Bible Foot Notes, page 1528)"
http://www.answering-christianity.com/trust_bible_or_quran.htm
Kangaroo said:
Nvm.
I was pretty disappointed after reading this post by Anthony Rogers (you).
To the Believers Is He Most Kind
[I hope you don't mind that I hyperlinked the article you referenced above since it wasn't displaying properly.]
By way of reply, I first want to ask what the letters "NVM" mean at the beginning of your reply? They are gibberish to me. Are you trying to imitate the gibberish letters that appear at the beginning of certain Surahs? I think we both know that Muslims are full of conjecture and doubt about the meaning of these "mysterious" letters in the "perfectly clear" and "fully detailed" Qur'an. Just so you don't tempt me to come up with a meaning, do you think you can be clearer than your prophet and let me know what you meant by "NVM"?
Secondly, I am happy to see you discovered an article I wrote exposing a case of Shirk in the Qur'an and that you have drawn attention to it in this forum. Feel free to share it with your friends, make copies of it and distrubte them at your mosque, and link to it in as many Muslim forums as your heart desires. We can always use more people to get the word out.
Sounds like a last ditch resort trying to give the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) divine names.
If you read the article then you would know that this "last ditch effort" was not of my doing. The fact is, the last two verses of Surah 9 were the "last" of the (so-called) revelations of the Qur'an "given" to your (false) prophet and they were also the last verses to be found and included when the Qur'an was compiled. Since these verses call Muhammad "rauf" (compassionate/kind) and "rahim" (merciful), both of which are only used to speak of Allah's names and attributes EVERYWHERE else in the Qur'an, and since it is part of Muhammad's boast in the hadith that he was given these two names, and since Muslim sources admit that Muhammad was "clothed with Allah's own attributes of compassion and mercy", something that is not said of anyone besides Allah WITH THE EXCEPTION of Muhammad, a man who taught that his name must be confessed along side of Allah's for salvation, and who also taught that people are to obey "Allah and His messenger", I'm sure you can imagine why I have a problem with that (as should you).
Nothing worth refuting here because the reader can see for himself.
Go tell that to Bassam Zawadi who recently tried to refute it and failed:
Given that you are such a talkative fellow, and given that you have an evident zeal for your false god and false prophet - and I do give you props for coming in here all alone and trying to have it out with several people at once - I hope you won't be taken aback at my telling you that this is nothing more than an excuse on your part. If you thought you had an answer, I find it hard to believe you wouldn't give it.
Disappointing. If only Christian missionaries were truthful I wouldn't mind having discussions with them, but this is just sad, unless you have any other excuses.
That's the secod time you have slandered and falsely accused someone on this blog without any evidence. Is that a habit of yours?
I'm done here lol. I actually had some trust in the teammates of this blog.
Given your penchant for slandering people without cause, it is hard for me to believe that you came here in a spirit of good will and trust in people who write for this blog. I think it is closer to the truth to say that you came here because you thought you had the goods to refute Christianity. Failing that...you now want to make sure we don't take away the few props you have left and which you desperately need in order to keep your gods, Allah and Muhammad, from toppling over.
P.S. I forgot to include my reply to Zawadi. Here it is:
Surah 9:128 and Bassam's "Giant" Problem
Enjoy.
And here is a refutation for your sick allegations.
http://www.islamicacademy.org/html/Articles/English/Hadhir_Nadhir.htm
You can't be serious. The link you provided gives FURTHER examples of shirk. And when it quotes from Al-Qadi Ilyad, it leaves out the best part:
"One of the men of knowledge, Al-Husayn ibn al-Fadl, said, “He [Allah] honored him [Muhammad] with two of His own names: the compassionate and the merciful (rauf, rahim).” The same point is made in another ayat: “Allah was kind to the believers when He sent among them a Messenger from among themselves.” (3:164) …
Jafar ibn Muhammad [as-Sadiq] said, “Allah knew that His creatures would not be capable of pure obedience to Him, so He told them this in order that they would realize that they would never be able to achieve absolute purity in serving Him. Between Himself and them He placed one of their own species, CLOTHING HIM IN HIS OWN ATTRIBUTES OF COMPASSION AND MERCY. He brought him out as a truthful ambassador to creation and made it such that when someone obeys him, they are obeying Allah, and when someone agrees with him, they are agreeing with Allah.” Allah says: “Whoever obeys the Messenger has obeyed Allah.” (4:80)
As-Samarqandi explains that the words a mercy to all the worlds mean for both the jinn and mankind. It is also said that it means for all creation. He is a mercy to the believers by guiding them, a mercy to the hypocrites by granting them security from being killed, and a mercy to the unbelievers by deferring their punishment. Ibn Abbas said, “He is a mercy to the believers and also to the unbelievers since they are safe from what befell the other communities who cried lies.” It is related that the Prophet said to Jibril, “Has any of this mercy touched you?” He replied, “Yes, I used to have fear about what would happen to me, but now I feel safe because of the way Allah praised me when He said, ‘Possessing power, secure with the Lord of the Throne, obeyed, then trusty.’” (81:21) (Qadi Iyad Ibn Musa al-Yahsubi, Kitab Ash-shifa bi ta'rif huquq al-Mustafa (Healing by the recognition of the Rights of the Chosen One), translated by Aisha Abdarrahman Bewley [Madinah Press, Inverness, Scotland, U.K., third reprint 1991, paperback], Part One. Allah’s great estimation of the worth of his Prophet expressed in both word and action, Chapter One. Allah’s praise of him and his great esteem for him, Section 1. Concerning praise of him and his numerous excellent qualities, pp. 4-6; capital, bold and underline emphasis ours)
Obviously you don't even read the links that YOU provide, and you do not check the sources they cite. What a shame.
Kangaroo, it would be better if you put your arguements here in your own words, and then gave us the link to fact-check you.
I'm only saying this because I tend to not value someone's links very much. I assume if they really cared, they would understand the material enough to put it in their own words.
Lies are tricky. Some contain just enough truth to present the appearance of being true. In others, the subconscious accidentally leaks the truth. For instance, the murder suspect who during the course of an interview with a detective insists the gun found at the scene is not his. Unfortunately for the suspect, the detective knows that no one other than the police and the murderer knows the gun was found at the scene. Leaky subconscious. TMI.
Your point that the Jews would not have referred to Jesus is correct and there's no sarcasm evident, since we know Islam claims Allah said what he meant and meant what he said. Clearly, this error is a big clue that the entire tale is fabricated.
However, the speaker, whether Mohammed or the supposed angel Gabriel, has a leaky subconscious. By calling Jesus the Messiah the speaker gives us an even more damning truth than the mistake about the Jews. The use of the word Messiah is out of context for the speaker's point of view. It's not only contrary to how the Jews viewed Jesus, it's in complete opposition with Allah's claim that Jesus is merely a prophet. Only someone who 'knows' the truth would leak such a terminology mistake under these circumstances. The canon-size smoking guy? The speaker knows the truth. Jesus is the Messiah.
Actually it is pretty CLEAR what the Quran says. NEITHER KILLED NOR CRUCIFIED BUT IT APPEARED TO BE SO. That is all we need to know.
That is why there are some churches that say Jesus is not part of a trinity, some say he never died on the cross etc.
Basially proving the conjecture and doubt. And all the "evidence" you have are books written by men at unknown times and places who weren't even eye witnesses.
Sounds shady to me.
Which leads us back to the Quran when it warns people of writing something with their own hand, hence Paul etc, and claiming it is from God. Do you have proof Paul is truly an Apostle? Or do you prefer blind faith.
mr. kangarro... can you presente ONE single example off
1) a Christian church that doubts thate Jesus «was not crucified or died on the cross»?
2) a Christian church thate «Jesus is not part of a trinity»?
ONE single example for each off your claimes... ONE...
Apostolics believe in Oneness rather than trinity. (That Jesus was the one God in flesh).
Apostolic denominations include
United Pentecostal Church International
Assemblies of the Lord Jesus Christ
Pentecostal Assemblies of the World
Apostolic Restoration Mission
Reconciling Pentecostals International
They don't beleive Jesus was part of a trinity. And there's always the Mormons....haha..
Kangaroo, I belong to one of the churches who don't use the word "trinity" But honestly and truthfully we are not going to be able to help you with your beliefs.
I believe that the Father is God, because the bible says so, over and over again. I believe that the Son is God, because the bible says so, over and over again. And I believe that the Holy Spirit is God because the bible says so over and over again.
But I won't use the word Trinity, oh no, not I!
But how do I help your cause?
**Moderator: I'm not sure this comment went through, so I'm resending. I apologize if I've commented twice. Just ignore this one if you got the other. Thanks.
Mr. Roo, if you are responding to my comment, then you have veered from the subject at hand and that subject is NOT what the Koran says about the crucifixion and its denial that it happened, but the slip up in terminologies used by the writer. It's a point of view issue. A writer/narrator must maintain point of view or the story slips the surly bonds of credibility. Even in an omniscient p.o.v, the writer/narrator must remain true to separate personalities, their actions and their thought processes or the narrator's reliability loses believability. This is what happened here. Twice. This applies in real life when telling a story to your friends about what happened last night. Your story is true to known facts about people and the setting or it's not credible. It's about the nature of truth. When telling the truth, this kind of p.o.v. mistake doesn't happen because there is only one personality's p.o.v. (first person) and the truth is from their perspective. Of course, another option is that the speaker/narrator of this statement is confused about the facts. That doesn't bode well for the Koran either.
I'll explain again: From the point of view of the Jews, Jesus was not the Messiah and he would have been referred to by them as Jesus, son of Joseph, not Mary. Mary was just his mother, not divine or special in any way that would exclude Joseph as the marker for Jesus' lineage, as per Jewish custom. The Jews would not have thought of Jesus as the Messiah--not for one second--nor would they have uttered it at any time in a serious discussion such as the statement being discussed here. To do so goes against known facts and the setting. The use of the word Messiah was not sarcasm, but a declarative statement. That's mistake #1. Mistake #2: The writer/narrator did indeed call Jesus the Messiah--without qualification for the usage--a statement which is also in great conflict with both Allah's and Mohammed's point of view. There is no reason for this description of Jesus to have entered the mind of the writer/narrator. It's outside both Allah's and Mohammed's belief system (and thought processes if engaged in a statement of truth) and is just as telling as if a Greek or a Roman had confused Apollo and Zeus. They wouldn't. They thought and spoke from their world view and belief system, unless clarified as a statement incorporating another's p.o.v., which the speaker/narrator of the questioned statement did not do. The smoking gun: For Jesus to be referred to as the Messiah as a statement of fact--which is was--the speaker/narrator had to know the truth and his/its subconscious leaked this truth during the course of making a statement that is in direct conflict to the premise that Jesus is the Messiah. The speaker/narrator made a mistake that revealed the truth he/it sought to deny. Or...he/it was gravely confused. Your choice.
Which leads us back to the Quran when it warns people of writing something with their own hand, hence Paul etc, and claiming it is from God.
You mean like Mohammed? Oh, that's right; Mohammed was illiterate. So who recorded what he said that Gabriel said that Allah said? Somebody wrote it down. Do you have any proof these words were recorded accurately and without alternation or do you accept this on blind faith? Do you have any proof that Gabriel appeared to Mohammed or do you accept this on blind faith as well? I don't malign your faith as a concept of belief, but it's a terribly weak argument, Mr. Roo, to use as a qualifier that someone else's faith is flawed when faith is defined the same way no matter what belief system you attach to it. It's the belief system we're discussing here.
Kangaroo
Mormons aren't Christians.
And you think the Pentacostals are going to help you out?
Okay I am giggling right now. A Pentacostal church that you might go to for help is the Dove Outreach
Center that Mr Terry Jones is a member of. I looked up the church he preaches at, and it is called an apostolic church, and since that rang a few bells, I looked up "apostolic church" in Wikipedia
Sure enough! Apostolic churches are Pentacostal!
As a matter of fact, this is what Wikipedia says about Pentacostalism, and then I'll let you decide if they will support your beliefs:
"The Apostolic Church is a Pentecostal Christian denomination which can trace its origins back to the 1904-1905 Welsh Revival. Despite the relatively recent origin of the denomination, the church seeks to stand for first century Christianity in its faith, practices, and government.
The purpose of the denomination is summed up by one prominent Apostolic writer as:
"to make known world-wide the forgiveness of sins through the atoning death of Christ; the baptism in water by immersion; the baptism of the Holy Ghost with signs following; the nine gifts of the Holy Ghost; the five gifts of our Ascended Lord; and the vision called in the New Testament, 'the Church which is His Body'."
Dear Kangaroo,
1.We will never be able construct a historical Isa al-Masih based on the accounts on the Quran.The IsA al-Masih in the quran is as true as the CInderrella, Rumpestilskin or the giants in Jack and The Bean Stalk.
2.There is absolutely no prooof that the Isa al-Masih in the quran is Jesus of Nazareth except for the claim made by Muslims.
3. The accounts in the quran are largely based on Jewish and Christian texts.
4. It is Muslim frustration with the above three points that causes Muslims to claim that they accept that parts of the Bible are still correct while some are corrupt.
5. Everybody who starts a new religion based on an older one can claim that his accounts are more correct than the original one. the Ahmadiyahs and Bahai's are a good example. But Muslims call them heretics...they can't believe that there others who are better then them when it comes to copying religions...lol.
ROBINSON
What's more doubtful?
1.)Blindly following the writings of the Jew next door.
2.)Following a text that has no serious questions about its authenticity and is INTACT with no changes, today.
Neither of the above. Blindly following the teachings of a Mullah who says that his prophet flew on a winged horse(before he died) to Jerusalem even when his own religious text does not state the word Jerusalem is more doubtful.
According to the Quran, the man killed on the cross merely looked like Christ, the true Messiah having been secreted away just prior to his death. On the other hand, they then say that a man who looked like Christ appeared to the apostles and the others claiming to be Jesus Resurrected. Is this the same man who stood in for Christ on the cross, or another look-alike? Considering that Isaiah makes it plain that the Christ would have a distinctive appearance (some scholars believe He may have been physically deformed) what are the odds of the Christians finding not just one look-alike, but two? On the other hand, if Jesus was not crucified, why did He not appear Himself to disclaim the attempts of the Christians to display Him as one crucified? Why the appearances by the imposter, but not the genuine article?
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